They Like Jesus but Not the Church Insights from Emerging Generations (Audible Audio Edition) Dan Kimball Patrick Lawlor Zondervan Books
Download As PDF : They Like Jesus but Not the Church Insights from Emerging Generations (Audible Audio Edition) Dan Kimball Patrick Lawlor Zondervan Books
Many people today, especially among emerging generations, don't resonate with the church and organized Christianity. Some are leaving the church and others were never part of the church in the first place. Sometimes it's because of misperceptions about the church. Yet often they are still spiritually open and fascinated with Jesus.
This is a ministry resource book exploring six of the most common objections and misunderstandings emerging generations have about the church and Christianity. The objections come from conversations and interviews the church has had with unchurched 20- and 30-somethings at coffee houses. Each chapter raises the objection using a conversational approach, provides the biblical answers to that objection, gives examples of how churches are addressing this objection, and concludes with follow-through projection suggestions, discussion questions, and resources.
They Like Jesus but Not the Church Insights from Emerging Generations (Audible Audio Edition) Dan Kimball Patrick Lawlor Zondervan Books
A Review ofThey Like Jesus But Not The Church
by Dan Kimball (Zondervan, 2007, 271 pp)
I found They Like Jesus But Not the Church by Dan Kimball to be a helpful complement to the well-known Barna Institute publication UnChristian by David Kinneman. The Barna Institute book provides us with statistical analyses of young people’s disconnect from mainline Christianity. Kimball’s book provides us with anecdotes that put a human face to the statistics.
The focus of They Like Jesus is on the same issues that Kinneman identifies. The topics discussed from pp. 73-209 are:
• The church is an organized religion with a political agenda.
• The church is judgmental and negative.
• The church is dominated by males and oppresses females.
• The church is homophobic.
• The church arrogantly claims all other religions are wrong.
• The church is full of fundamentalists who take the whole Bible literally.
Kimball’s approach to these issues is to interview young people in settings outside the church. His research methodology is more like a focus group than a random sample survey. As the pastor of a growing congregation, Kimball recognized that he had begun to live within the Christian bubble, so he made a concerted effort to open conversations in the public square. One of his major pleas is that Christians converse openheartedly with their unchurched neighbors and colleagues, probably forcing themselves out of their comfort zone as he had to do. He concludes the chapter on “Why I Escaped the Church Office” saying:
Are you in the prison of the Christian bubble? Have you become comfortably numb?.... Are you planning your escape? People who like Jesus are waiting on the outside to meet you. (p. 48)
The phrase “people who like Jesus” opens up a major theme of the book. He found in his conversations that people were attracted to Jesus, basically seeing him in their own image: “The pop culture Jesus is the loving, hypocrite-hating man of peace who taught us not to judge others.” (p. 55) At the conclusion of the book, Kimball addresses several criticisms of his approach and evaluation of this pop culture view. He admits that it is grossly inadequate and narrow, but “we should celebrate their interest in him and use that as a springboard to engage them in conversations about who he really is.” (p. 256)
In order to do that, though, we need to be respectful and open. We need to gain people’s trust. We need to see ourselves in a foreign mission field, learning the culture and expressing the call of Christ in ways and terms that the unbelievers can understand. “Hear their thinking and understand their hearts,” he urges. (p. 260)
Kimball gives examples from his own parish where they have tried to organize and present in ways that make outsiders comfortable. His congregation intentionally attempts to incorporate and harness the energy, creativity, and cultural relevance of young people. He tries to avoid the image of the know-it-all preacher by using dialogue in his sermons. He accommodates their desire for personal prayer time by occasionally having only prayer stations instead of corporate worship on Sunday mornings. He explains traditions of the church and its ancient liturgies when he uses them.
One plea that Kimball makes relates well to our Lutheran theological tradition. He says that people want to learn about Jesus, and Lutheran theology is deeply Christ-centered. Besides “Solus Christus,” we also have “Sola Scriptura,” and people want to learn what the Bible says. They don’t want someone forcing personal opinions or political issues on them. They want to become better people, more Christ-like. As one interviewee put it, “it feels more like they are trying to shame you and control you into their way of thinking… rather than it being about becoming more like Jesus and a more loving human being.” (p. 104)
Kimball is an evangelical pastor, so he is at great pains to relate his concerns in ways that do not compromise the faith. In the section on Fundamentalism, he argues that we should all be fundamentalists in the classical sense, basically adhering to the doctrines of the Creeds. However, we should be respectful, humble, and open on other matters. Kimball takes this approach on issues like the role of women in the church, infallibility of Scripture, evolution, homosexuality, other religions, etc.
Kimball points out that people today get information on Christianity and other faiths from many different sources. No longer is the church’s interpretation of truth the dominant one. We must understand the other viewpoints, and we must address them intelligently. For example, Kimball several times mentions his struggle with the scholarly interpretation that the basic narrative of Jesus’ birth, life, death, and resurrection is a repetition of ancient Egyptian, Greek, Roman myths. Anybody who watches TV or reads general works on religion has seen this viewpoint. Do we know it, and are we able/ready to address it, he asks.
Kimball advocates that churches and pastors must become much more intentional and thorough in their teaching ministries. Members must learn how to interpret Scripture in all its complexities, not just gather isolated passages to use as ammunition. They must understand and appreciate other religions, not just dismiss them as demonic. “The Bible says it; I believe it; that settles it” just won’t do anymore. Too many Christians “don’t know why they believe what they do.” (p. 202) They certainly can’t then explain or defend it to others. We need to do the hard work of understanding our faith in terms of the questions of our day.
Kimball urges that people are hungry for Christians to make sense of the faith. “I see attraction and even relief when they hear rational and heartfelt reasons for having some core theological beliefs.” (p. 206) Kimball begins the next-to-last chapter with this great question: “If you were ever to go to a church or return to a church , and if you could shape it, what would that church look like?” (p. 213) He summarizes the view of the outsiders: “ We want to be taught the Bible to learn about Jesus…. Give us the opportunity to ask questions… We want a learning environment, not a watered-down lecture….” (p. 223)
In the eloquent expressions of some interviewees (pp. 224-25):
• “Make church a book club with soul.”
• “I want (church) to be like a family… where you are all looking out for each other.”
• “I wish the pastors and leaders were like baristas or bartenders.”
• “I want the church to be diverse and to accept diversity and love diversity.”
In conclusion, Kimball summarizes his message to the church to offer a humble apology and an informed apologetic. (p. 250)
Clearly, the book is a great one for a discussion group. It is written for Christians to discuss together, but one could also envisage doing it in a more community forum such as a coffee house, neighborhood discussion group, campus ministry, or book club. What a humble, openhearted way for Christians to learn and share.
Especially in such a forum, one of the great strengths of the book is the numerous discussion questions at the end of each of the chapters. They are incisive and challenging. A few examples:
• “If you were raised outside of the church…., do you think you would like Christians? (p. 35)
• “Does the rising interest in the pop culture Jesus excite you…. or do you see it as a threat….?” (p. 59)
• “Imagine a stranger visiting…. What would (he) observe that would clearly point to Jesus? (p. 95)
• “How do you think people in your town would describe your church?.... What are you known for?” (p. 113)
• “How would visitors know that your church respects females and gives them a voice in the life of the church?” (p. 135)
• “How would the average person in your church explain why they believe Jesus is the only way to salvation?” (p. 186)
• “What specific stumbling blocks can you list that prevent people from ever reaching the point of stumbling over the gospel?” (p. 244)
• “Do you feel optimistic about those who like Jesus but not the church?” (p. 254)
Kimball’s plea is that we feel optimistic and prepare to engage them intelligently and joyfully.
Herb Hoefer
Concordia University
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They Like Jesus but Not the Church Insights from Emerging Generations (Audible Audio Edition) Dan Kimball Patrick Lawlor Zondervan Books Reviews
Are you in leadership within your church? Are you puzzled about why people between 18 and 30 (or so) seem to disappear from the church and have tons of harsh criticisms of the church? Are you too lazy to seek these people out to ask them for yourselves?
If you answered yes to any of these three questions, then you should pick up this book and read it.
They Like Jesus But Not the Church is an exploration of author Dan Kimball's interactions and conversations with members of what has been termed the emerging generation. Young adults who are intelligent, knowledgeable, and hungry for more. All of those that Dan interviewed and spent time with have been hurt or burned by the institutional church in some way. Yet they are all attracted to the person of Jesus. Dan spends a lot of time exploring the negative perceptions that these people have of the church that put them off from getting involved, and offers us practical advice and guidance on how best to counter these perceptions.
Throughout the whole book Dan is very humble and apologetic (at times almost too apologetic for my tastes), seeking not to create any serious rifts within the church. His heart for Christ and his heart for the church both show through his writing. He shares that even though the church has earned some of the negative perceptions that this generation has of it, he still loves it as what it is supposed to be and is and (at many times) is striving to become. This is not a call for the church to be disbanded at all, merely to examine how we are treating people, and whether or not we are creating such a deep "Christian subculture" that we seek to force people to adhere to that we are actually pushing people away before they can really encounter the cross.
The one real weakness that I have with the book is that Kimball's sample audience is (largely) confined to a local (for him) coffee shop that he frequents and a few others that he interacts with. However, this is offset by the fact that over the past several years in youth ministry I have seen these same (types of) people over and over. They are seeking to know Jesus, just not through the church.
The book is solid. Kimball excels at leaving you with many questions on your heart about how you can take this new information and applying it to your own ministry. Questions that will force you to think through your own actions and attitudes toward those outside the church. Just bear in mind that it is indeed written with church leadership as its primary audience (the companion book for those not in church leadership comes out in the near future), so make sure that if you are not in leadership in your church that you remember that. And if you are not, make sure that you share it with those in your church who are. They should get a lot out of it.
Dan Kimball's book is very provocative, and I think, essential reading for every church leader, hoping to grow a church that will impact the community it's part of. He interviews lots of people who are on the fringes, and their perspectives - many of which have been formed in ignorance - are worth taking note of. The church, generally speaking, has also not done itself any favours in this regard. I've met some of those (in the minority, fortunately) in the church who are dismissive of unbelievers; who rarely, if ever, socialise with unbelievers, and who are quite happy to live out their lives in this way. It's almost a case of "well I'm OK, Jack!" Sadly, folk like this seem to have a disproportionate influence on outside perceptions.
I was pleased that the author makes it clear what his doctrinal position is on certain key issues facing society today. Some of these issues can be very thorny, even divisive. Any Christian leader needs to know how to address them in a loving, humble way, yet remain clear and uncompromising on biblical authority. I thought the author handled this very well and I'm looking forward to reading more from him.
It certainly stirred me to get out of my study and start looking at people through new eyes.
I got this book after learning of it from my Pastor. I am working on my Master of Divinity degree and this book has been an excellent resource for my thesis. However, beyond that, it has given me great insight into why the church is in decline. I pray I learn from this and can be the kind of Christian that people want to know, so they may know Jesus through me.
A Review of
They Like Jesus But Not The Church
by Dan Kimball (Zondervan, 2007, 271 pp)
I found They Like Jesus But Not the Church by Dan Kimball to be a helpful complement to the well-known Barna Institute publication UnChristian by David Kinneman. The Barna Institute book provides us with statistical analyses of young people’s disconnect from mainline Christianity. Kimball’s book provides us with anecdotes that put a human face to the statistics.
The focus of They Like Jesus is on the same issues that Kinneman identifies. The topics discussed from pp. 73-209 are
• The church is an organized religion with a political agenda.
• The church is judgmental and negative.
• The church is dominated by males and oppresses females.
• The church is homophobic.
• The church arrogantly claims all other religions are wrong.
• The church is full of fundamentalists who take the whole Bible literally.
Kimball’s approach to these issues is to interview young people in settings outside the church. His research methodology is more like a focus group than a random sample survey. As the pastor of a growing congregation, Kimball recognized that he had begun to live within the Christian bubble, so he made a concerted effort to open conversations in the public square. One of his major pleas is that Christians converse openheartedly with their unchurched neighbors and colleagues, probably forcing themselves out of their comfort zone as he had to do. He concludes the chapter on “Why I Escaped the Church Office” saying
Are you in the prison of the Christian bubble? Have you become comfortably numb?.... Are you planning your escape? People who like Jesus are waiting on the outside to meet you. (p. 48)
The phrase “people who like Jesus” opens up a major theme of the book. He found in his conversations that people were attracted to Jesus, basically seeing him in their own image “The pop culture Jesus is the loving, hypocrite-hating man of peace who taught us not to judge others.” (p. 55) At the conclusion of the book, Kimball addresses several criticisms of his approach and evaluation of this pop culture view. He admits that it is grossly inadequate and narrow, but “we should celebrate their interest in him and use that as a springboard to engage them in conversations about who he really is.” (p. 256)
In order to do that, though, we need to be respectful and open. We need to gain people’s trust. We need to see ourselves in a foreign mission field, learning the culture and expressing the call of Christ in ways and terms that the unbelievers can understand. “Hear their thinking and understand their hearts,” he urges. (p. 260)
Kimball gives examples from his own parish where they have tried to organize and present in ways that make outsiders comfortable. His congregation intentionally attempts to incorporate and harness the energy, creativity, and cultural relevance of young people. He tries to avoid the image of the know-it-all preacher by using dialogue in his sermons. He accommodates their desire for personal prayer time by occasionally having only prayer stations instead of corporate worship on Sunday mornings. He explains traditions of the church and its ancient liturgies when he uses them.
One plea that Kimball makes relates well to our Lutheran theological tradition. He says that people want to learn about Jesus, and Lutheran theology is deeply Christ-centered. Besides “Solus Christus,” we also have “Sola Scriptura,” and people want to learn what the Bible says. They don’t want someone forcing personal opinions or political issues on them. They want to become better people, more Christ-like. As one interviewee put it, “it feels more like they are trying to shame you and control you into their way of thinking… rather than it being about becoming more like Jesus and a more loving human being.” (p. 104)
Kimball is an evangelical pastor, so he is at great pains to relate his concerns in ways that do not compromise the faith. In the section on Fundamentalism, he argues that we should all be fundamentalists in the classical sense, basically adhering to the doctrines of the Creeds. However, we should be respectful, humble, and open on other matters. Kimball takes this approach on issues like the role of women in the church, infallibility of Scripture, evolution, homosexuality, other religions, etc.
Kimball points out that people today get information on Christianity and other faiths from many different sources. No longer is the church’s interpretation of truth the dominant one. We must understand the other viewpoints, and we must address them intelligently. For example, Kimball several times mentions his struggle with the scholarly interpretation that the basic narrative of Jesus’ birth, life, death, and resurrection is a repetition of ancient Egyptian, Greek, Roman myths. Anybody who watches TV or reads general works on religion has seen this viewpoint. Do we know it, and are we able/ready to address it, he asks.
Kimball advocates that churches and pastors must become much more intentional and thorough in their teaching ministries. Members must learn how to interpret Scripture in all its complexities, not just gather isolated passages to use as ammunition. They must understand and appreciate other religions, not just dismiss them as demonic. “The Bible says it; I believe it; that settles it” just won’t do anymore. Too many Christians “don’t know why they believe what they do.” (p. 202) They certainly can’t then explain or defend it to others. We need to do the hard work of understanding our faith in terms of the questions of our day.
Kimball urges that people are hungry for Christians to make sense of the faith. “I see attraction and even relief when they hear rational and heartfelt reasons for having some core theological beliefs.” (p. 206) Kimball begins the next-to-last chapter with this great question “If you were ever to go to a church or return to a church , and if you could shape it, what would that church look like?” (p. 213) He summarizes the view of the outsiders “ We want to be taught the Bible to learn about Jesus…. Give us the opportunity to ask questions… We want a learning environment, not a watered-down lecture….” (p. 223)
In the eloquent expressions of some interviewees (pp. 224-25)
• “Make church a book club with soul.”
• “I want (church) to be like a family… where you are all looking out for each other.”
• “I wish the pastors and leaders were like baristas or bartenders.”
• “I want the church to be diverse and to accept diversity and love diversity.”
In conclusion, Kimball summarizes his message to the church to offer a humble apology and an informed apologetic. (p. 250)
Clearly, the book is a great one for a discussion group. It is written for Christians to discuss together, but one could also envisage doing it in a more community forum such as a coffee house, neighborhood discussion group, campus ministry, or book club. What a humble, openhearted way for Christians to learn and share.
Especially in such a forum, one of the great strengths of the book is the numerous discussion questions at the end of each of the chapters. They are incisive and challenging. A few examples
• “If you were raised outside of the church…., do you think you would like Christians? (p. 35)
• “Does the rising interest in the pop culture Jesus excite you…. or do you see it as a threat….?” (p. 59)
• “Imagine a stranger visiting…. What would (he) observe that would clearly point to Jesus? (p. 95)
• “How do you think people in your town would describe your church?.... What are you known for?” (p. 113)
• “How would visitors know that your church respects females and gives them a voice in the life of the church?” (p. 135)
• “How would the average person in your church explain why they believe Jesus is the only way to salvation?” (p. 186)
• “What specific stumbling blocks can you list that prevent people from ever reaching the point of stumbling over the gospel?” (p. 244)
• “Do you feel optimistic about those who like Jesus but not the church?” (p. 254)
Kimball’s plea is that we feel optimistic and prepare to engage them intelligently and joyfully.
Herb Hoefer
Concordia University
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